DSG 240RS Updates...still a ways to go - Page 7 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*racepar1* · 08-30-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtdiggler666

what matriel are you using for the Splitter?

Ditto. Is that the same type/thickness of aluminum that is used on the road signs? I have heard that that material works quite well. Also how much would you estimate that thing weighs?. I was thinking of using some VERY thin aluminum sheet metal to make the undertray (from the bumper back) and only using about a 6"-8" strip around the edge for the actual splitter to save some weight. The downside is that I will probably lose some rigidity of the splitter.

driftstyre · 08-30-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Ditto. Is that the same type/thickness of aluminum that is used on the road signs? I have heard that that material works quite well. Also how much would you estimate that thing weighs?. I was thinking of using some VERY thin aluminum sheet metal to make the undertray (from the bumper back) and only using about a 6"-8" strip around the edge for the actual splitter to save some weight. The downside is that I will probably lose some rigidity of the splitter.

The splitter is alumilite. I've used it for many splitters and for the money it is the best material available. Its .25" plastic honeycomb sandwiched together with .010" aluminum. Very light and incredibly stiff. Any sign company can order it but its much cheaper to get at a warehouse type place.

The bumper is what I got after I crashed at summit point, before VIR last year. I did used to have the m-sports style one. I would like to make some new body work next year but we'll have to wait and see.

*burnsauto* · 08-30-2008, 04:25 PM

paint or powdercoat on the arms?

*dirtdiggler666* · 08-30-2008, 11:27 PM

would you suggest using alumilite for a full under body tray? and if you remember whats the cost on that stuff? thanks

s13dan · 08-30-2008, 11:34 PM

ooooo yea i can smell that delicouse third gen calsonic blue from here

. I liked white but that blue looks great,close to the same color as my datsun pickup! ---What brand is it???

driftstyre · 08-31-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

paint or powdercoat on the arms?

Thats rustoleum my friend. Rustoleum pro

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13dan

ooooo yea i can smell that delicouse third gen calsonic blue from here

. I liked white but that blue looks great,close to the same color as my datsun pickup! ---What brand is it???

Woah cool, a datsun pickup! I have no idea of the brand. I can ask my friend who is painting it.

Quote:

would you suggest using alumilite for a full under body tray? and if you remember whats the cost on that stuff? thanks

You can use it for a full flat bottom. I think I've paid from 125-140 for a new 4x8 sheet.

*racepar1* · 08-31-2008, 07:59 PM

Rustoleum pro rocks! Shit's no joke. As for the alumilite, are you sure it is 1/4" thick? That seems awfully thick for a splitter to me.

*GSXRJJordan* · 08-31-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Rustoleum pro rocks! Shit's no joke. As for the alumilite, are you sure it is 1/4" thick? That seems awfully thick for a splitter to me.

It's all about the sammich.

The plastic is most of the thickness, and the aluminum is a super, super small part. Rigidity/weight/scratch (or scrape) resistance concerned, alumilite (or alumalite, however) is the shit.

I used .020" aluminum flashing (for rain gutters/etc) on exactly what you're thinking of using, and it worked great until the usual scrapes from being so low wore through the aluminum on the leading edge of the bumper... if I were to do it again, I'd probably use the alumilite sandwich.

*Def* · 08-31-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

Thats rustoleum my friend. Rustoleum pro

Fuck yea Rustoleum Pro. My whole car is painted in that(roll on - ultra-gangsta).

driftstyre · 09-03-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Fuck yea Rustoleum Pro. My whole car is painted in that(roll on - ultra-gangsta).

You are ultra gangsta

You gotta take some photos of what you work on

Probably not allowed to post them though.

The splitter mount is done. Its all titanium and weighs 1.1 lbs! I still have to make the mounts for the rear corners of the splitter but it is more or less done. Now the rest of the underside/side skirts needs to be done.

Scott, who works for us is working on the rear and under aero of the car. He works for a Formula Continental team and has a lot more knowledge about aero and suspension than I do

SicBastard · 09-03-2008, 08:18 AM

1.1 Lbs!?! Wow! Is the ti any more difficult to weld than aluminum? What do you use to fish mouth it?

And just wondering... Subjectively (or lap times) how much can you feel the addition of the front splitter?

That last pic is awesome!

driftstyre · 09-03-2008, 08:31 AM

Welding Ti is more or less the same technique as stainless, just a lot more annoying. The way Ti melts and moves when melted is different and likes to jump onto the tungsten.

The front splitter, if braced well, is a huge improvement. Its all about how far you take it. If you rivet it to your flimsey bumper, it probably will have a minimal effect. I felt a huge difference but once the aero is completed, the car should have a considerable amount of downforce for a tintop.

*Def* · 09-03-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

You are ultra gangsta

You gotta take some photos of what you work on

Probably not allowed to post them though.

Pictures are a big no-no!

The Ti splitter mount looks awesome. You getting all the Ti surplus, or buying all that new(which is $$$) if you don't mind me asking?

It'd also be neat to build some kind of adjustability into the splitter mount so you can tune the front downforce just like rear wing angle. Then again, you're probably running it beyond 3", so any gains from extending it are going to be very small since you're well into the diminishing returns extension length.

*punxva* · 09-03-2008, 09:05 AM

Bill all i can say is this is looking amazing as usual, i am really digging the ti splitter mount and cant wait to see more updates.

driftstyre · 09-03-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Pictures are a big no-no!

The Ti splitter mount looks awesome. You getting all the Ti surplus, or buying all that new(which is $$$) if you don't mind me asking?

It'd also be neat to build some kind of adjustability into the splitter mount so you can tune the front downforce just like rear wing angle. Then again, you're probably running it beyond 3", so any gains from extending it are going to be very small since you're well into the diminishing returns extension length.

I figured that much

The Ti is surplus, reasonably cheap. My friend had a bunch of 3/8 tube so I lucked out. It is grade 2 so somewhat flexible, perfect for active aero

Also, complete adjustability were designed into this splitter for height, pitch and the length protruding from the bumper (rake?). The aero will definitely be awesome when completed. I might as well take advantage of the rules (or lack thereof).

*Om1kron* · 09-03-2008, 10:18 AM

nice as always.....

yota man · 09-03-2008, 01:04 PM

Awesome work man. Your build keeps me awake while I'm in class. Just a question, and I know you probably mentioned it somewhere, but what series are you running in? I saw you mention rules or a lack there of and was just wondering.

driftstyre · 09-03-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yota man

Awesome work man. Your build keeps me awake while I'm in class. Just a question, and I know you probably mentioned it somewhere, but what series are you running in? I saw you mention rules or a lack there of and was just wondering.

Mainly redline time attack, hillclimb as well.

SicBastard · 09-03-2008, 01:24 PM

How about some net thrust for the rear radiators?

P51 Mustang Net Thrust - Net Downforce - Sport Compact Car Magazine

*racepar1* · 09-03-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Pictures are a big no-no!

The Ti splitter mount looks awesome. You getting all the Ti surplus, or buying all that new(which is $$$) if you don't mind me asking?

It'd also be neat to build some kind of adjustability into the splitter mount so you can tune the front downforce just like rear wing angle. Then again, you're probably running it beyond 3", so any gains from extending it are going to be very small since you're well into the diminishing returns extension length.

According to nascar wind-tunnel testing on the car of tomorrow the optimal protrusion for the front splitter was 4" as I remember. Beyond that you just end up creating more drag.

*SoSideways* · 09-03-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

According to nascar wind-tunnel testing on the car of tomorrow the optimal protrusion for the front splitter was 4" as I remember. Beyond that you just end up creating more drag.

Yeah but I'm sure ride height and front end shape plays a role as well.

What works for NASCAR might not work for Bill here...

*racepar1* · 09-03-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Yeah but I'm sure ride height and front end shape plays a role as well.

What works for NASCAR might not work for Bill here...

I think the ride heighths should be comparable. As for front end shape, I'm sure it does make a difference, but as a general rule of thumb it should work. I wouldn't go over 4" for sure.

driftstyre · 09-03-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Yeah but I'm sure ride height and front end shape plays a role as well.

What works for NASCAR might not work for Bill here...

The base protrusion is 4". For different conditions, it can be adjusted for more or less downforce. You can give up drag at lower speeds for the benefit of downforce, in the rain as well. Ive read some good articles on the COT and the majority of aero is designed for low drag and average speeds above 170. My averages should be between 100-120 depending on the track. I like mostly looking at GTP/Group C aero for inspiration

*SoSideways* · 09-03-2008, 02:57 PM

Well yeah, you did say it was adjustable.

I was just saying, that what works for NASCAR, which is mostly high speed left hand turns at WOT, will probably not work for you, since your're not on an open speedway with a million other cars trying to "draft" behind/in front of you.

What will work best for you, will more than likely be found by trial and error.

*blu808* · 09-03-2008, 04:06 PM

Are you on fire here at the end?

YouTube - Dent Sport Garage 240RS Maxi Okemo Final Run

*SoSideways* · 09-03-2008, 04:55 PM

Yeah he was. I forget what he said caught fire, but it was a small one and he "overreacted" he said lol

*dirtdiggler666* · 09-03-2008, 05:29 PM

small or not fire is the worst thing ever i would have fukin shit myself

*Def* · 09-03-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

According to nascar wind-tunnel testing on the car of tomorrow the optimal protrusion for the front splitter was 4" as I remember. Beyond that you just end up creating more drag.

Like SoSideways said, the rest of the car matters too. But by 3" you're pretty much in the "diminishing returns" category though regardless of what's behind the splitter.

*Def* · 09-03-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

The base protrusion is 4". For different conditions, it can be adjusted for more or less downforce. You can give up drag at lower speeds for the benefit of downforce, in the rain as well. Ive read some good articles on the COT and the majority of aero is designed for low drag and average speeds above 170. My averages should be between 100-120 depending on the track. I like mostly looking at GTP/Group C aero for inspiration

Group C cars still give me major engineer wood.

*racepar1* · 09-04-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

Group C cars still give me major engineer wood.

LOL! "Engineer wood"...sweet!

08-30-2008, 04:25 PM	#183
burnsauto Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY Age: 23 Posts: 2,700 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: burnsauto	paint or powdercoat on the arms? __________________ Support Innovation. WTB: ARC titanium spark plug cover for S13SR!!!!!!!

08-30-2008, 11:34 PM	#185
s13dan Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Springfield, Mo Posts: 1,156 Trader Rating: (2)	ooooo yea i can smell that delicouse third gen calsonic blue from here. I liked white but that blue looks great,close to the same color as my datsun pickup! ---What brand is it??? __________________ 89 FB #933-hot rod///91 coupe #130,603-dd

08-31-2008, 07:59 PM	#187
racepar1 can't knock the hustle Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: reseda, CA Age: 26 Posts: 4,534 Trader Rating: (37) Rides Gallery: racepar1	Rustoleum pro rocks! Shit's no joke. As for the alumilite, are you sure it is 1/4" thick? That seems awfully thick for a splitter to me. __________________ Disrespecting $20k + sports cars since 2007 -1989 nissan 240sx: uber track whore -1994 infiniti Q45t: daily baller NEED A MECHANIC IN SO-CAL? LOOK HERE: http://zilvia.net/f/south-western-st...-mechanic.html

09-03-2008, 08:18 AM	#191
SicBastard Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clifton, NJ Posts: 363 Trader Rating: (0)	1.1 Lbs!?! Wow! Is the ti any more difficult to weld than aluminum? What do you use to fish mouth it? And just wondering... Subjectively (or lap times) how much can you feel the addition of the front splitter? That last pic is awesome! __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

09-03-2008, 08:31 AM	#192
driftstyre Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Age: 30 Posts: 722 Trader Rating: (4)	Welding Ti is more or less the same technique as stainless, just a lot more annoying. The way Ti melts and moves when melted is different and likes to jump onto the tungsten. The front splitter, if braced well, is a huge improvement. Its all about how far you take it. If you rivet it to your flimsey bumper, it probably will have a minimal effect. I felt a huge difference but once the aero is completed, the car should have a considerable amount of downforce for a tintop. __________________ Dent Sport Garage Norwood, MA 781-551-3399 www.dentsport.com Motorsport Service and Fabrication In-House Dyno Dynamics AWD Dyno

08-30-2008, 11:27 PM	#184
dirtdiggler666 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: p-dale Age: 30 Posts: 2,056 Trader Rating: (26)	would you suggest using alumilite for a full under body tray? and if you remember whats the cost on that stuff? thanks

09-03-2008, 10:18 AM	#196
Om1kron Violent Running Asshole Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: fontana, ca Age: 29 Posts: 3,364 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: Om1kron	nice as always..... __________________ Wayne T. Edwards Violent Running Tribe News Blog <---Peep This

09-03-2008, 01:04 PM	#197
yota man Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florence, Sc Age: 19 Posts: 376 Trader Rating: (0)	Awesome work man. Your build keeps me awake while I'm in class. Just a question, and I know you probably mentioned it somewhere, but what series are you running in? I saw you mention rules or a lack there of and was just wondering.

09-03-2008, 01:24 PM	#199
SicBastard Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clifton, NJ Posts: 363 Trader Rating: (0)	How about some net thrust for the rear radiators? P51 Mustang Net Thrust - Net Downforce - Sport Compact Car Magazine __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

09-03-2008, 02:57 PM	#204
SoSideways Corgi massa Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: where old people go to die Posts: 3,326 Trader Rating: (3)	Well yeah, you did say it was adjustable. I was just saying, that what works for NASCAR, which is mostly high speed left hand turns at WOT, will probably not work for you, since your're not on an open speedway with a million other cars trying to "draft" behind/in front of you. What will work best for you, will more than likely be found by trial and error.

09-03-2008, 04:06 PM	#205
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,701 Trader Rating: (1)	Are you on fire here at the end? YouTube - Dent Sport Garage 240RS Maxi Okemo Final Run __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

09-03-2008, 04:55 PM	#206
SoSideways Corgi massa Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: where old people go to die Posts: 3,326 Trader Rating: (3)	Yeah he was. I forget what he said caught fire, but it was a small one and he "overreacted" he said lol

09-03-2008, 05:29 PM	#207
dirtdiggler666 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: p-dale Age: 30 Posts: 2,056 Trader Rating: (26)	small or not fire is the worst thing ever i would have fukin shit myself

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