DSG 240RS Updates...still a ways to go - Page 13 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

driftstyre · 10-17-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Ok dude, you are really not telling me anything that I don't know and are beginning to earn the name captain obvious. You think you are teaching me something when in reality I have probably seen more failures like this then you have. It does look like it was the water in the oil that caused that rod bearing to lose lube, overheat like hell, and the rod bolt to fail. Without pics of some of the other engine bearings to show that there is damage related to loss of lube elsewhere I cannot be certain.

I was expecting the bearings to all be scored but no others were too bad, overly worn but not scored. The piston skirts were scored a good amount though. This is the same cylinder that was getting intermittent spark (which was tracked down to a loose pin) earlier in the weekend if that would make a difference. Its the furthest bearing from the pump as well and could have just suffered from a cavity of water in the oil. At 7000 rpm, the whole process happened so quickly.

David Steele · 10-17-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Ok dude, you are really not telling me anything that I don't know and are beginning to earn the name captain obvious. You think you are teaching me something when in reality I have probably seen more failures like this then you have.

If you want to be a subjective name called and start the '' I've probably seen a million of more than :insert name here: '' . You should actually be talking a credible way.

Quote:

It does look like it was the water in the oil that caused that rod bearing to lose lube, overheat like hell, and the rod bolt to fail.

It does ? It is.

1. You're off from the break point THE ROD and bearing CAP ARE IN TWO PIECES rod bolts don't do that PERIOD they give and the cap falls off and the rpms he's turning will pull the head of the bolt apart chemical mechanical force wins as the rod heated up and ripped the rod off like bending a paper clip.

If it was such a force to break it at those two points on the connecting rod it just means the bolt did it's job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

Is that a balance shaft removed on that motor?
You can't see in the photo but the top half of the rod bolt is still in the upper portion of the rod, threaded all the way in. I think the bolt just sheared, not sure how but the amount of heat in that small area (the crank journal as well) is f-ing insane. It makes me start to think how much force and power is being produced in such a small area. Engines are so cool...damn.

Yes those are balance shafts removed 2 of them to be exact.
Yes my bolt sheared off.

But I wasn't as lucky as you. *note no heat discoloration yet the bearings are flattened

*Def* · 10-17-2008, 10:19 PM

Slightly worn bearings are to be expected when lots of water gets introduced into the oil at high RPM. It just doesn't lubricate well.

The heat makes me think maybe the bearing was just too tight and it was getting hot for quite a while and finally the bearing spun and caused a rod failure when it siezed.

David Steele · 10-17-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

The lack of lube and the excessive heat caused by it caused the bolt to fail. It seriously looks like there was water in the oil for a period of time, but without photos of the other bearings to verify that they were all being damaged I am not willing to make that call. I have seen it before where the oil gets milky pretty damn quick when a rod blows a hole in a water jacket. This is the same thing that I have been saying all along, I just haven't gotten into this much detail, that is why I am calling you captain obvious. You are pointing out the obvious facta and acting like it is some sort of revelation to me when in fact that is what I have been saying all along. If you wish to continue arguing about nothing feel free, but I am done as there is nothing more to say.

You KEEP saying rod bolt it is not the failure of the bolt.

You're aren't comprehending it at all and you don't make sense just stop while you're at it. I've documented all of my engine failures not once have I seen an occasion where a counterweight destroys a bearing cap by slapping it and look at my picture it bent the rod not broke it. So it gives you an idea on how much strength these parts have.

Oh yeah the bearing cap is on the bottom and always is through out rotation,so having the counter weight slap it and destroy it yeah fat chance.. most of the time it's sent flying through the pan to add some extra hp by giving you a better pcv vent (just kidding) .

Verify other bearings ? He told you

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

was expecting the bearings to all be scored but no others were too bad, overly worn but not scored.

Milky pretty damn quick huh milky coolant is fairly long term since the impeller movement is perfect for making mocca coffee. That takes time.

My engine coolant was pretty green look at it's there coolant was not the cause of my rod bolt failure and driftyre bolt did not fail, so can you please stop saying that I wouldn't want other ppl to think that coolant seeping into oil causes rod bolt failure it doesn't do anything to it.

This was a rod bolt failure drifstyre's wasn't.

Sorry about the little criticism driftstyre in your thread I just don't like misinformation.

timtiminy · 10-18-2008, 12:56 AM

David Steele: what engine is pictured? ^^^

eclip5e · 10-18-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Steele

This was a rod bolt failure drifstyre's wasn't.

Sorry about the little criticism driftstyre in your thread I just don't like misinformation.

That isn't too bad, i think it'll buff out.

kuah@splparts.com · 10-20-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

I was expecting the bearings to all be scored but no others were too bad, overly worn but not scored. The piston skirts were scored a good amount though. This is the same cylinder that was getting intermittent spark (which was tracked down to a loose pin) earlier in the weekend if that would make a difference. Its the furthest bearing from the pump as well and could have just suffered from a cavity of water in the oil. At 7000 rpm, the whole process happened so quickly.

Sorry to hear about the engine Bill, I lost a rod bearing at last year's Redline Time Attack in St. Louis and it took me a year to get the engine rebuilt

If you had intermittent spark in that cylinder but the injectors continued to fire, the excess fuel could wash down the cylinder and cause excess piston skirt/cylinder wall wear. Fuel contamination in your oil could also have caused lubrication issues leading to the rod bearing failure...

*Om1kron* · 10-20-2008, 11:13 AM

David and racepar1, please get a room and leave your bickering to PM. If you guys want to start an engine failure discussion thread then start one in the tech forum and stop circle jerking each other in this thread. His engine failed, he's rebuilding it, you both have huge auto knowledge dicks i'm sure all of us here are patiently anticipating you oil each other up and swing them in huge circles over your heads in a battle to the death.

In the end you still wont get rep for them, nobody here will care, and I've completely lost track of what the thread starter has been posting in his thread because you two keep bumping this with bickering and nonsense.

kthx, don't ruin this for the rest of zilvia.

love,
Wayne
xoxoxoxoxo

driftstyre · 10-21-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuah@splparts.com

Sorry to hear about the engine Bill, I lost a rod bearing at last year's Redline Time Attack in St. Louis and it took me a year to get the engine rebuilt

If you had intermittent spark in that cylinder but the injectors continued to fire, the excess fuel could wash down the cylinder and cause excess piston skirt/cylinder wall wear. Fuel contamination in your oil could also have caused lubrication issues leading to the rod bearing failure...

Thanks Kuah. The engine will be better than last year for sure. I have talked to Mark @ Mazworx about a 90mm bore, stock stroke shortblock. I have decided to head in this direction and am definitely excited about it. I've given up trying to figure out why my engine failed. There were things I should and shouldn't have done to the motor in the first place so I'm just making sure to have the short block built to the highest standards. It has put a hold on some other winter projects but I can still do the composite work (which is just labor at this point) and a few other small things. The wiring harness is getting completely rebuilt (which should cost approx. $400-500) and that is pretty much it. Kuah, the suspension bushings are awesome, especially with the newer upright pins. I'm really excited about that part of the car being at a point where I can start tuning it.

I uploaded a video that my Dad took at VIR. The first three clips are at .7 bar of boost. The last two clips are at 1.3. The turbo sounds ferocious, the engine too at the beginning of the last clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eR7cCGuebo

SicBastard · 10-21-2008, 06:28 PM

The speed that thing carries through the corners is amazing.
That lap traffic honda gives a nice perspective as to how power
you're putting down too. Big bore/stock stroke and lots of
attention to detail sounds like a great way to build a budget
short block.

*Def* · 10-21-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

Thanks Kuah. The engine will be better than last year for sure. I have talked to Mark @ Mazworx about a 90mm bore, stock stroke shortblock. I have decided to head in this direction and am definitely excited about it. I've given up trying to figure out why my engine failed. There were things I should and shouldn't have done to the motor in the first place so I'm just making sure to have the short block built to the highest standards. It has put a hold on some other winter projects but I can still do the composite work (which is just labor at this point) and a few other small things. The wiring harness is getting completely rebuilt (which should cost approx. $400-500) and that is pretty much it. Kuah, the suspension bushings are awesome, especially with the newer upright pins. I'm really excited about that part of the car being at a point where I can start tuning it.

I uploaded a video that my Dad took at VIR. The first three clips are at .7 bar of boost. The last two clips are at 1.3. The turbo sounds ferocious, the engine too at the beginning of the last clip.

YouTube - 240RS Maxi @ VIR 2008

I've never built an engine before, but I think that keeping it simple wrt goals is the best way to keep one together.

Like either a simple overbore with rods + pistons(maybe some coatings here if you want some bling) and some attention paid to the oiling/bearing systems due to the track usage, or like you're thinking for extra power - 90mm bore, stock stroke, some attention to the oiling system and then calling it good.

kuah@splparts.com · 10-21-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

Thanks Kuah. The engine will be better than last year for sure. I have talked to Mark @ Mazworx about a 90mm bore, stock stroke shortblock. I have decided to head in this direction and am definitely excited about it. I've given up trying to figure out why my engine failed. There were things I should and shouldn't have done to the motor in the first place so I'm just making sure to have the short block built to the highest standards. It has put a hold on some other winter projects but I can still do the composite work (which is just labor at this point) and a few other small things. The wiring harness is getting completely rebuilt (which should cost approx. $400-500) and that is pretty much it. Kuah, the suspension bushings are awesome, especially with the newer upright pins. I'm really excited about that part of the car being at a point where I can start tuning it.

Good to hear

Hopefully one day we'll meet with both our cars at the same event!

driftstyre · 12-10-2008, 05:37 PM

Been working on some small things for the 240RS while I save money for a new shortblock. I bought a set of the Manley Turbo Tuff rods which will head down to Mazworx when the block/crank head down there.

I am moving a good amount of parts to the passenger seat area as it is pretty much a waste of space otherwise. The cross weights could be a lot better than they are so I am moving the battery, accusump, autronic, msd and water pump ecu. I have been stocking up on parts for the harness and it should be lighter and much much cleaner. All the switches, breakers and relays will be in the new center console mainframe (I always wanted a main frame so I'm just going to call it that). I spent 30+ hours on this mold for the carbon center piece and had to destroy it to get the part out. Kind of a bummer but I learn something new everytime I make a composite part. The piece came out pretty good though and it is super light and strong. I used .125" foam core in between two layers of carbon. The panel for the switches and breakers is recessed into the piece and is removable from the main unit. I only need a few other parts for the harness and then I can get going on that. We're heading down to PRI tomarrow so when I get back I can get rolling on the other small carbon parts I'm working on.

*Om1kron* · 12-10-2008, 05:42 PM

ooooooh carbon fiber!

*GSXRJJordan* · 12-10-2008, 06:43 PM

Sexy center console! Sucks the mold is gone, I'd love one (and there's no way I can afford 30 hrs of your time lol).

*DJButton* · 12-10-2008, 07:36 PM

That looks great!

driftstyre · 12-16-2008, 05:30 PM

Radiator duct # 1 of 2 finished.

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 05:53 PM

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better.

I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person.

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 05:54 PM

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better.

I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person.

*Maximamike* · 12-16-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better.

I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person.

Holla so we can go karting yay. Pimp shit as usual Bill.

I was wondering where this went too.. haven't seen it in a bit.

*dirtdiggler666* · 12-16-2008, 07:16 PM

can i get more pics or info on the rear mount radiator setup im thinking about doing it to my s14

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 07:23 PM

Anyone considering making their own ducting, or radiator setups should read this article.

P51 Mustang Net Thrust - Net Downforce - Sport Compact Car Magazine

David Steele · 12-16-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Anyone considering making their own ducting, or radiator setups should read this article.

P51 Mustang Net Thrust - Net Downforce - Sport Compact Car Magazine

That article is using such old examples, in reality all you need to know is how air pressure works around vehicle, and know that high pressure follows low pressure.We know that air will travel faster in a smaller diameter, slower in a larger diameter and temperature effects it will apply to ''ducting ''' as well.

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 07:48 PM

In reality that article shows the correct way to build a ducting setup. It also shows that you can create thrust which will negate the drag caused by the air inlets.

David Steele · 12-16-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

In reality that article shows the correct way to build a ducting setup. It also shows that you can create thrust which will negate the drag caused by the air inlets.

Whoa you'll need some empirical data before going that far saying before ''thrust'' on a car. P51 mustangs travel faster than we do on the ground.

Only thing I believe thats to come close to that were early F1 team using exhaust pressure in their diffuser exit to affect the fast moving air effecting the car by sucking it to the ground beyond theoretical expectations. So they banned it.

Another example is an LMP car using the exhaust velocity to draw engine bay heat out of the engine compartment.

If you need to see how those innovative ducts are built then Mulsanne has tons of pictures for you.

Mulsanne's Corner, technical analysis of contemporary sports prototype racing cars

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 08:37 PM

Well you should design your ducting to provide for an efficient exit of the air. If it does not produce actual thrust, then anything to reduce the amount of drag that the inlet makes is worthwhile.

eclip5e · 12-16-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Just when you thought it couldn't get any better.

I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person.

If you do, make sure you come on a thursday/friday so you can go to beer night with us.

driftstyre · 12-16-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eclip5e

If you do, make sure you come on a thursday/friday so you can go to beer night with us.

Yeah Luke, Beer night ftw

*blu808* · 12-16-2008, 09:31 PM

Ok guys. Im going to start looking at pricing for tickets.

Where is a good place to stay/time to come?

*DJButton* · 12-16-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftstyre

Yeah Luke, Beer night ftw

Yeah, Anthony who lives next door to what's his name with the white Impreza said there was some drinking night happenings going on soon. If that makes any sense.

Luke, all sorts of great places to stay in the greater Boston area! Lots of times, cheap tickets can be had by flying in to the Boston Manchester regional airport in Manchester, NH only 45 minutes from Boston or so.

10-20-2008, 11:13 AM	#368
Om1kron Violent Running Asshole Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: fontana, ca Age: 28 Posts: 3,322 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: Om1kron	David and racepar1, please get a room and leave your bickering to PM. If you guys want to start an engine failure discussion thread then start one in the tech forum and stop circle jerking each other in this thread. His engine failed, he's rebuilding it, you both have huge auto knowledge dicks i'm sure all of us here are patiently anticipating you oil each other up and swing them in huge circles over your heads in a battle to the death. In the end you still wont get rep for them, nobody here will care, and I've completely lost track of what the thread starter has been posting in his thread because you two keep bumping this with bickering and nonsense. kthx, don't ruin this for the rest of zilvia. love, Wayne xoxoxoxoxo __________________ Wayne T. Edwards Violent Running Tribe News Blog <---Peep This

10-21-2008, 06:28 PM	#370
SicBastard Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clifton, NJ Posts: 361 Trader Rating: (0)	The speed that thing carries through the corners is amazing. That lap traffic honda gives a nice perspective as to how power you're putting down too. Big bore/stock stroke and lots of attention to detail sounds like a great way to build a budget short block. __________________ BURN OUT IN YOUR FACE! 1998 S14 LS7/T56 swap in progress, build thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/147301...d-gto-pan.html

12-10-2008, 05:37 PM	#373
driftstyre Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Age: 30 Posts: 722 Trader Rating: (4)	Been working on some small things for the 240RS while I save money for a new shortblock. I bought a set of the Manley Turbo Tuff rods which will head down to Mazworx when the block/crank head down there. I am moving a good amount of parts to the passenger seat area as it is pretty much a waste of space otherwise. The cross weights could be a lot better than they are so I am moving the battery, accusump, autronic, msd and water pump ecu. I have been stocking up on parts for the harness and it should be lighter and much much cleaner. All the switches, breakers and relays will be in the new center console mainframe (I always wanted a main frame so I'm just going to call it that). I spent 30+ hours on this mold for the carbon center piece and had to destroy it to get the part out. Kind of a bummer but I learn something new everytime I make a composite part. The piece came out pretty good though and it is super light and strong. I used .125" foam core in between two layers of carbon. The panel for the switches and breakers is recessed into the piece and is removable from the main unit. I only need a few other parts for the harness and then I can get going on that. We're heading down to PRI tomarrow so when I get back I can get rolling on the other small carbon parts I'm working on. __________________ Dent Sport Garage Norwood, MA 781-551-3399 www.dentsport.com Motorsport Service and Fabrication In-House Dyno Dynamics AWD Dyno

12-10-2008, 05:42 PM	#374
Om1kron Violent Running Asshole Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: fontana, ca Age: 28 Posts: 3,322 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: Om1kron	ooooooh carbon fiber! __________________ Wayne T. Edwards Violent Running Tribe News Blog <---Peep This

12-10-2008, 06:43 PM	#375
GSXRJJordan [JEFE S14] Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 7,046 Trader Rating: (14) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan	Sexy center console! Sucks the mold is gone, I'd love one (and there's no way I can afford 30 hrs of your time lol). __________________ TEAM SUSPECT is alive. www.JordanInnovations.com*

10-17-2008, 10:19 PM	#363
Def Doctor Chips Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 1,116 Trader Rating: (0)	Slightly worn bearings are to be expected when lots of water gets introduced into the oil at high RPM. It just doesn't lubricate well. The heat makes me think maybe the bearing was just too tight and it was getting hot for quite a while and finally the bearing spun and caused a rod failure when it siezed.

10-18-2008, 12:56 AM	#365
timtiminy Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 577 Trader Rating: (0)	David Steele: what engine is pictured? ^^^

12-10-2008, 07:36 PM	#376
DJButton Hooked 0n Phonicz! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NH, USA Age: 23 Posts: 427 Trader Rating: (0)	That looks great! __________________ New website! http://www.fujiispl.com Post up YOUR CAR! http://www.rimtuck.com/

12-16-2008, 05:30 PM	#377
driftstyre Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston Age: 30 Posts: 722 Trader Rating: (4)	Radiator duct # 1 of 2 finished. __________________ Dent Sport Garage Norwood, MA 781-551-3399 www.dentsport.com Motorsport Service and Fabrication In-House Dyno Dynamics AWD Dyno

12-16-2008, 05:53 PM	#378
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	Just when you thought it couldn't get any better. I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person. __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

12-16-2008, 05:54 PM	#379
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	Just when you thought it couldn't get any better. I might have to fly out there and check this thing out in person. __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

12-16-2008, 07:16 PM	#381
dirtdiggler666 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: p-dale Age: 30 Posts: 2,051 Trader Rating: (26)	can i get more pics or info on the rear mount radiator setup im thinking about doing it to my s14

12-16-2008, 07:23 PM	#382
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	Anyone considering making their own ducting, or radiator setups should read this article. P51 Mustang Net Thrust - Net Downforce - Sport Compact Car Magazine __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

12-16-2008, 07:48 PM	#384
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	In reality that article shows the correct way to build a ducting setup. It also shows that you can create thrust which will negate the drag caused by the air inlets. __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

12-16-2008, 08:37 PM	#386
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	Well you should design your ducting to provide for an efficient exit of the air. If it does not produce actual thrust, then anything to reduce the amount of drag that the inlet makes is worthwhile. __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

12-16-2008, 09:31 PM	#389
blu808 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SPACE Age: 26 Posts: 4,686 Trader Rating: (1)	Ok guys. Im going to start looking at pricing for tickets. Where is a good place to stay/time to come? __________________ I NEED A S14 INNER DOOR LATCH. Driver side. If you have one PM me ASAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWW.BLU808.COM

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