BigVinnie

I let most of the local guy's check out my dyno before I post it up here on Zilvia. Some of you have seen it some of you haven't, this dyno was done last month.
This is still using my stock block that is actually losing compression as low as 155PSI, at a 9.5:1CR. I thought the numbers were pretty impressive for using 95 Octane. For those that are asking how it is making power in the 6500RPM range that is because I changed the G60 MAF to the N60 MAF. The G60 and G70 MAFs usually choke at about 5800RPM, regardless of cams or head work.
Chris and I spent 2 hours on the dyno, tuning the SAFC, I couldn't make more than 159WHP, Chris actually tuned it to make 3 more HP (good work Chris).



Modifications:Stock head, 240/248 cams, SCV's,Stock bottom end, Castrol GTX 10w-40,iridium spark plugs NGK, stock timing (20BTDC @ distributor), SAFC2, AEM intake,DC sports header, 2.5" exhaust(magna flow), CATCO high flow, FAL electric fans and thermostatic switch, N60 MAF, fidanza aluminum flywheel, cheap $8 Paper intake filter (ebay), 95 Octane home brew (made of toulene and xylene, with 91octane pump gas)



Next up is a set of PDM cams, ecu tune by Jim wolfe Tech, 3" exhaust, and my extruded non SCV manifold. Crossing my fingers for 195WHP on 95 octane. Then I'll swap in a newer block with better compression numbers.

SilviaBricks

Very nice, you should be able to get some better numbers with a different set of cams.

HKSdrift3r

Very good numbers for mostly bolt-ons! Why not advance the timing a bit more as you have a higher octane gas and a way to tune it?

BigVinnie

I think the power I am making now is pretty much maxed out using the 240/248 cams. If you look at other dyno's like PDM's and Scotts at yahoo GEOcities they maxed out power at 174, and 169 on 104 octane. What isn't very realistic is paying to use 104 octane, so I thought I would be a little more modest using 95octane, which anybody can get there hands on. I would say using 104 octane the KA engine will max out in power using the 240/248 cams at about 180WHP, using 9.5:1CR, and N60MAF.

It's definitely time to upgrade cams to see if I can make 10 to 15 additional WHP.
I like the lift and duration of the PDM's, there a little pricey but I like the overlap, compared to the Jim Wolf or Brian Crower cams.

BigVinnie

Good question..The thing is that once I have tuned for 95 octane and increased timing my engine is more susceptible to knock and ping on 91 octane. I'm pretty sure the engine could of made 3 or 4 more WHP with advanced timing, I just don't want to risk blowing the engine increasing the EGT, while using lower streetable octanes.
I felt confortable with these numbers and once an ecu tune is implemented I can advance the ignition from there any way which would be safer for the octanes that I use.
Chris and I didn't want to take the responsibility if I was to blow my engine anyway, this engine has to last for a couple more tests, and some track time this year.

Nismo240R

Do you plan on Swapping in 89 SOHC Pistons (11.6 C/R)?

You should also try changing that cheap eBay filter for an K&N one, there like $34 because im sure that ebay one sux ass

__________________

BigVinnie

Plan on keeping the stock compression ratio, and stock bore. The engine is less volatile to needing higher grade octanes. I may do slight head welding when the time comes to raise compression, but I don't see myself doing anything drastic. Power truly comes from squish and quench not necessarily how high the compression ratio is. 91octane is one of the many reasons why I won't be doing a high compression build.
I will probably do work to the bottom end, and buy the AMS fully counterweighted crank(Forged light weight chromolly, oil holes for the entire main journals), individaul main caps, an ATI super dampener, probably order some titanium retainers, springs, and valves when I get the money for it. But this would all be a year later, as I am just doing bolt on's and a cam upgrade to see if it is even worth it to move on with this project, I'm still trying to accomplish smog legal power so hopefully there is alternatives for people in some states that can't do the sr20det swap. It is more of the crawl before you walk phase. I am looking to see how much power I can make on about $4000, so far I have spent a little more than $1000. So far from my recent smog test I'm still legal.
Definitely need to get rid of the filter and exhaust. Using a 2.5" exhaust rather than a 3", and using the cheap ebay paper cone filter I am probably missing a good 3~4WHP to the wheels, and the fact that I left timing stock my engine is probably missing out on another 3~4WHP. Thats 7~8 WHP I'm missing!!! That could of made or break the 170WHP with just bolt on's and crude tuning.
My stock injectors will probably peak at about 98% duty cycle or close to it once I install the higher lift/duration cams, so I may need to upgrade to the SR injectors, which would be bad, because then I start increasing HC's and CO's which could be bad for smog. We will see how far this project goes.

LeonL

Very good number for non FI. I assume that you are running stock injectors. Mind to share your SAFC settings? In/out, low and high throttle, etc.


Thanks and good luck.

arkive43

this is friggin sick....im still NA and have pretty much the same boltons. cept for the n60 maf/safc.....hmmm i do plan on turboing my KA.....but this is awesome. mabey ill stay na and save some moneys hmm....

BigVinnie

Well to suit the needs of every one that wants to make more power here are the settings for the SAFC 2. I've always felt ROM tunes and piggy back emulation should all be free anyways so here it is...

DISCLAIMER:
Do not use these setting's if you do not use an N60MAF!
Do not use these settings for an OBD 2 KA24de ecu!
Do not use these settings for any other injectors other than 270cc!
Do no use these settings for any other cams other than the stock 240/248!
Leave your timing stock!
This tune is ONLY FOR 91 and 95 OCTANE!
Low Throttle Correction doesn't necessarily need to be at 48% you can lower that setting to as low as 1% if you need to it isn't as dedicated as WOT (or HI Throttle correction) is.

IN/OUT:
2In/5Out


NE POINT:
2600 RPM
3000 RPM
3400 RPM
3600 RPM
4000 RPM
4200 RPM
4600 RPM
5000 RPM
5400 RPM
5800 RPM
6200 RPM
6600 RPM

LO Throttle correction:
48%
HI Throttle correction:
50%

Hi Throttle Percentage:
2600RPM@-22%
3000RPM@-24%
3400RPM@-22%
3600RPM@-19%
4000RPM@-24%
4200RPM@-24%
4600RPM@-24%
5000RPM@-24%
5400RPM@-24%
5800RPM@-30%
6200RPM@-44%
6600RPM@-50%

LO Throttle:
@ any RPM is -1%

2_fast_240

This is definatly awesome. Has anyone been able to hit 200whp on a na ka yet? I gave up on na and have started turboing my ka, but this ALMOST makes me wish i didnt, lol.
Shit, you might have got a few more hp just with more rpms. I dont think ive ever seen a na ka dyno keep climbing like that. Ive always thought the stock maf looks so damn restrictive and outta place. like it came from a honda or somethin, lol.
I dont see why not consider high comp. pistons though. Cant you buy e85 at the pump in Cali. Or would you lose smogability then?

BigVinnie

E85 isn't the best thing for high compression. It is also horrible on the KA because the amount of ethanol is corrosive to the aluminum manifold, and head, it also starts to tear down nitrile injectors, and hoses just as methanol does as well. The LVH of alcohol is horrible to use and in the process you sacrifice BTU output, loss in power to use a cooler burning high vapor fuel, if you also look at a/fr's you have to use more LB's of alcohol to 1 LB of air, to make proper combustion, so instead of making lets say 26MPG (which is what I make right now when I don't wide open throttle), I would be making closer to 21MPG.

Stock G60 MAF works as a restrictor plate almost, it's diameter is at 59mm, while the stock TB is 65mm Taper to a 60mm butterfly. So there is alot of restriction going on.

I actually like stock compression it allows for much higher advancements in timing while using lower Octanes rather than having to use VP100 Octane race gas, or TORCO fuel additive. Again this is an issue that deals with "SQUISH" and "QUENCH" where as the stock DOHC pistons with a crater type dish can actually make a better mushroom effect in the cylinder than the flat top pistons would make, because SOHC pistons don't use a crater shaped lowered dish. This means the efficiency is actually better using the stock DOHC pistons rather than the SOHC pistons, and if I wanted to raise compression I could do minor head welding, and milled head to yield a slightly higher cr and still have better efficiency using the DOHC pistons rather than the SOHC flat tops.

The highest NA KA dyno I saw was a few years back on dyno paper, but this engine was making 198WHP on stock compression, JWTcams, N60MAF, ecu tune, and every bolt on imaginable, including an ATI super damper, and individual main caps. If I get there that would put me close to 100HP per liter at the crank shaft!

All I need to do is a little more tweaking and fine tuning and I will be making the same if not more power than a stock NA 2JZGTE

LeonL

Thanks for posting the SAFC settings. I am sure I can use some of the settings myself. Interesting that your in and out are, 2 and 5. I thought it is 4 in and 5 out for N60. 2 in and 5 out for N62?

Thanks again and good luck.

Moncef

The "GTE" version of the 2J is turbo...the NA ones from Lexus IS300 etc are "GEs".

Haha jk. Nice work man, are you going ITB soon?

-Moncef

__________________
'01 Maxima||JWT||Fidanza||Exedy||Infinity||Alpine

Drifter Z

yeah good number man.

__________________
JDM mania

BigVinnie

You are correct avout the GE laballing, but they came stock in Supra's and SC300 as well as the IS300.

Don't plan on going ITB's, infact I am out to dis prove that ITB's work better for a KA. To many changes to weather or temprature can actually make it harder for ITB's to operate and tune one of the reasons why it's not a big fad with OEM manufacturers, and isn't used very often accept in the aftermarket racing world. Keeping the engine smog legal as well also means that I can't use ITB's. But I think this new manifold setup/non SCV's will pack some punch for my KA.


BEFORE

AFTER

BEFORE

In progress

After with polish

Stock runner diameter 44mm

Extruded runner diameter 45mm

BigVinnie

2 in and 5 out works but as you can see I would have to use almost 50% correction in the higher RPM range. 2in and 5out is also a wider range to tune around on the NE points although it does lack the fact that the percentages are much bigger than normal. It also drops the A/Fr's more into the 11.1:1 and 12.7:1 range where as the settings for the 4in and 5out would put the AFR's more into the 13.1:1 and 14.7:1 range. It's really just how you manipulate the voltage that the ecu reads, there isn't really to much difference between the N60 and N62 accept peak HP choking point. Without any tuning of the SAFC a 2in and 5 out makes 153WHP with all the bolt on's I stated 9WHP was made with just fine tuning the SAFC.

There could also be that I am missing some HP numbers from not using the 4in and 5out setting as I maxed out at 50% correction at 6600RPM. All I do know is that a 12.5:1 A/Fr at 6600RPM and above is pretty good, so I highly doubt that I am missing any really big HP numbers. Besides if I decide to advance timing then I raise the EGT and A/F ratio anyway, I think this is a pretty good A/Fr.

2_fast_240

Not to keep beating a dead horse, cause I know your going to do what you want, and obviously know what you are doing. But Supertechs 10.5/1 pistons are dished rather than flat top. They actaully look very close to the stock pistons. That wouldnt be a crazy increase in compression either so you might still be able to play with timing. Just a thought.

BigVinnie

Yeah but then again I could also use the NAPSZ pistons which are dirt cheap from clevite for about $100.00 brand new with rings, and accomplish the same compression goal for a fraction of the price. Those super techs are good, and pretty damn strong pistons to use if it would ever come down to NOS forced induction. I don't plan to ever go NOS so I don't see why I would want to get those.

Based on basic rules, for every compression point higher the engine is, it will make an AVG of about 10 more wheel HP. In this process though there are other factors that the engine now fights such as increased EGT, knock and ping, so now the Octane requirement to make that AVG 10WHP goes up as well so no matter what, that higher compression costs more at the pump. There really is no way around it, the higher the compression, the greater the demand for higher Octane RdON fuel. There is just simply to much demand for higher Octane. I mean in all seriousness if I accomplish the Goal of 195WHP or better with a 9.5:1 CR engine and 95 octane, then I wouldn't be making that much of a difference in power using a 100Octane fuel, with a 11.6:1CR to make 205~210WHP with a stock bottom end KA. If you look at the Honda F22c it is at an 11.1:1 CR and is only making 110WHP, so for a larger displacement lower compression KA that makes more torque and 15WHP less than the F22c I could live with that.

2_fast_240

^^^ Good points. You have obviously thought this through much more than me. And actually know something about tuning unlike me, lol.
I really do hope you get the fully counter-weighted crank though. Ive been wanting to see what that thing will do in a na ka. With that, plus the fact your already making power up to redline, (please dont hate me, but I speak truth) that thing should rev like a honda. BUT, it will have actually have more torque than a weed eater.
If you do get the crank, you will be removing rev limiter and all that jazz, right?

kingkilburn

BigVinnie do you have any info on that crank? I have been searching for more info but even on their own site I haven't had any luck.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron I hope you fall down a mountain of dicks naked and ass first.

BigVinnie

You can speak with Chris at sales at AMS, there is a group buy for the crank shaft that needs a $700 deposit per person. Once enough people are in on the group buy then it will be manufactured as Chris described to me.

kingkilburn

What is the total investment I'd have to make to get one? Just the 700 +shipment once completed?
I'm still up in the air on which to get, the Crower stroker kit or wait for the AMS crank. I know that the AMS crank will be used on Ivan's drag car, that would be proof enough of its durability. But I haven't heard of many people with the stroker kit so I don't know.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron I hope you fall down a mountain of dicks naked and ass first.

BigVinnie

The total at most the crank will cost is $1600.
If enough people get in on the group buy the cheapest it will get is $1300.
The great thing about this crank shaft is that it retains its stock stroke and journal sizes. As well will be modified for fully counterweights, with AERO design, and oiol holes for every main journal.
Retaining the stock stroke will allow it to keep it's rev high, where as strokers sometimes and more than likely reduce rev, from piston dwell time.
This crank is engineered to function better harmonically than what the half weighted stock modified GT3 cranks perform at, and I believe the fully counterweighted crank could perform better using the individual main journals rather than the girdle.

UNISA JECS

Also can't wait to hear a review on teh PDM cams.

__________________
PARTS 4 SALE !!

• Z32 E-Brake/Parking Brake Heatshield Assemblys!!!

Rep/Feedbacks

infinitexsound

high lift long duration is the shit.... upgrade the valvetrain..... using gm valvesprings... measure o.d. and i.d. and height.... find something better and adequate.... trust me you wont be dis satisfied... ahem sbc...

__________________
S14 TrackSlut coming to a raceway near you...
510 TimeAttack on its way...

Def

What do you mean ITBs aren't done often by OEMs? Almost every M engine made by BMW except the US spec E36 M3 engines have ITBs, and they are some of the most efficient NA engines that are bigger than the size of a weedeater 2 stroke.

As for the curve.. what's with the torque drop/spike at ~5.5k RPM?

hustlervibes

At the risk of sounding like a noob, why won't this work on OBDII KA's?

rb25crazy

dang, i wanna know why this doesn't work on obd II ka24de's also =D i have the same mods too. minus the 5speed =(

UNISA JECS

After reading this about the N60, N62 MAF's I have been looking a dyno's on KA-T.org and I couldn;t help but notice pretty much everyone using these either of these two MAF's (N60,N62) has a much better pull to redline (making more power 6500rpm and or substantially less drop off) weather it be teh stock Nissan T25, T28 or larger turbo.

__________________
PARTS 4 SALE !!

• Z32 E-Brake/Parking Brake Heatshield Assemblys!!!

Rep/Feedbacks